tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post7863774697761680519..comments2024-02-16T12:37:32.727+00:00Comments on velovoice: Bike Sizing: Stack And ReachRebecca Oldshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05979821146538393459noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-54581135267777763992018-01-09T23:22:47.476+00:002018-01-09T23:22:47.476+00:00Nice article. Great subject and well written, tha...Nice article. Great subject and well written, thanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-88498475457506571982017-09-04T16:22:39.217+01:002017-09-04T16:22:39.217+01:00I am not sure I understand your comment.
In this...I am not sure I understand your comment. <br /><br />In this post, all stack figures are for the frame alone, as provided by the builder/manufacturer, without reference to eventual build such as size/length of saddle, layback, number of spacers etc.<br /><br />Relative bottom bracket position isn't mentioned at all here, but of cours it is in the follow up post, where I took actual measurements of two complete bikes. If I erred in those calculations, then I made the same mistake on both bikes, and the point is how they compare to each other so it is hardly relevant if I used a different method of calculation that what you have outlined above. Rebecca Oldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05979821146538393459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-11452854271047496492017-08-27T21:57:37.157+01:002017-08-27T21:57:37.157+01:00Sorry, but your mention about your Enigma stack is...Sorry, but your mention about your Enigma stack is incorrect. I could calculate it exactly, but lets do it simple: 526 (efective top tube lenght) - 280/2 (half of saddle) - 50 (minimum setback) = 336mm maximum. Top tube lenght minus half of saddle minus minimum setback give you relative bottom bracket position.Luís Correiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11758680126482401042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-29768378082547392582016-12-14T05:21:02.185+00:002016-12-14T05:21:02.185+00:00A very informative article. Out of curiosity, I ch...A very informative article. Out of curiosity, I checked the STR on my 20 year old traditional framed bike. It had an STR of 1.30! No wonder I felt so stretched out on it, compared to a newer compact framed bike that is supposedly of the same size. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07097548236546633009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-74085399129002309382016-10-22T10:20:37.773+01:002016-10-22T10:20:37.773+01:00This post is so informative and makes a very nice ...This post is so informative and makes a very nice image on the topic in my mind. It is the first time I visit your blog, but I was extremely impressed. Keep posting as I am gonna come to read it everyday!<a href="http://www.carbonspeedcycle.com/" rel="nofollow">carbon fiber wheels bike</a>Lilly Farnandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02764653119073936223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-70754049382962258352016-09-06T15:23:05.677+01:002016-09-06T15:23:05.677+01:00I have exactly the same problem as you. Long legge...I have exactly the same problem as you. Long legged and short torso. On my custom mountain bike my stack is very high and reach is low. It is typically the opposite in modern mountain bikes these days with more emphasis on 'long/low' so the reaches are very high, but stacks are much lower than my custom frame. Ashwin Amannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17625422194316876505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-64666544147889236722015-11-14T09:00:11.748+00:002015-11-14T09:00:11.748+00:00You're absolutely right: STR has nothing to do...You're absolutely right: STR has nothing to do with size. It's a ratio, so tells you what the relationship is between other points of data. For example, a bicycle designed for racing (perhaps time trialling) will have a very similar STR across its entire size range. <br /><br />I don't think STR will help you find the right size. But using it as another point of data will help avoid a situation where you look at, for example, reach (only) and think "oh that's my size, then", only to find that the proportions or position is all wrong for you. Sadly that discovery is often made only after we've bought the bike. <br /><br />Those of us with particular issues will no doubt always look first to see what a bike's reach is (or its stack, if that's been more of a problem) as a pointer towards SIZE, and then look to the other measurements and data for that size to see if it will work. STR, as an additional piece of data, can help with that. <br /><br />What follows from this, of course, is -- you can significantly "change" the STR in real-world terms according to the way you build up a bicycle. The frame's STR doesn't change but the fit does. I've written about that <a href="http://velovoice.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/bike-sizing-in-real-world-or-making.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />I'm excited that more and more manufacturers are providing this information. Rebecca Oldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05979821146538393459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-27115463871605208042015-11-13T18:29:34.543+00:002015-11-13T18:29:34.543+00:00Thank you for this article. Very intriguing read f...Thank you for this article. Very intriguing read for a rider who has learnt the hard way not to trust S, M or L.<br /><br />But surely it can't be just STR? A medium or large or XL frame could have the same ratio, but for a rider to make up his/her mind on what size to get, the individual numbers of stack and reach will also be important?<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15741207192530293604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-75712037810763169362015-06-27T20:37:25.178+01:002015-06-27T20:37:25.178+01:00As ever, I'm not sure there is a "correct...As ever, I'm not sure there is a "correct" STR for any given rider. But I think it does give an indication of whether a bike will need only minor tweaks to be made comfortable or whether it really is outside the limits of rideable. As you no doubt already know from your own experience, the range of what's acceptable can be very broad. :)Rebecca Oldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05979821146538393459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-62949184272188948632015-06-14T12:50:15.377+01:002015-06-14T12:50:15.377+01:00All very interesting, and I'm quite certain no...All very interesting, and I'm quite certain not one of my bicycles is the correct STR for me. I'll get around to figuring that all out someday.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916475081711086964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-924053845299500772015-06-02T09:52:24.530+01:002015-06-02T09:52:24.530+01:00Last time I rented a bike on holiday was in Irelan...Last time I rented a bike on holiday was in Ireland - it was a hybrid and just horrible. Still better than walking or renting a car though (which I had done for previous visits to the same area). <br /><br />I think the bike loan is going to work out. It's a 1985 Trek 420 in what today would be a size 50cm but geometry more "square" e.g. ETT to ST, rather than longer reach as modern bikes seem to be. And it's got a quill stem. I will take my own saddle on its own seatpost, as my saddle is tricky to dial in and I don't want to mess up Lesli's set up for herself. Will just mark the quill stem height to make sure I put it back for Lesli when I'm done. So yeah, own saddle, pedals, lights, helmet and lock. I've been route checking too and it looks like the Trek's gearing will be sufficient for my little engine to haul it up the local hills. For a week with family, I will be travelling very light so all my bike stuff will fit into one suitcase, which I *think* qualifies as cabin bag not check in. It certainly fits in overhead cabin compartments, just need to check its dimensions against United's limits. So hopefully all set. Rebecca Oldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05979821146538393459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-70960828193395995082015-05-29T21:29:04.662+01:002015-05-29T21:29:04.662+01:00For $400 to ship your CC, you could probably purch...For $400 to ship your CC, you could probably purchase something second-hand in Eugene that would work. Holy moly! That's quite a bit, but not surprising given that many airlines are charging quite a bit just to check a bag these days. Of course, I understand that it probably wouldn't fit as well as your Cross-Check either, or would require a lot of fiddling, which is likely not what you'd want to spend your time doing while visiting family/friends. <br /><br />We went on a vacation one time and decided to buy used bikes off of Craigslist in an effort to avoid shipping bikes out and I have to say that was a really, really horrible experience for me. I think I rode the bike all of 50 feet, after which I refused to touch it because it just felt wrong. We ended up selling the two bikes to some guys who were working on a house next door to where we were staying. They were ecstatic - and I was glad to have learned a lesson about trying to just make something work.<br /><br />I know there's a shop in Bend that sells second hand, repurposed bikes that you may like, but that's at least a couple hour drive from where you're headed (If I'm remembering correctly... I know I drove over mountains to get to Eugene from Bend). I have little knowledge of the Eugene area... I've visited the city just once and it's been many years (something like 20 years... wow - didn't realize it had been that long!). Anyway, it's a shame that the shop isn't open to renting the Straggler as you've stated. At least you'd know what you're getting with that and it wouldn't be a big surprise. <br /><br />I hope you're able to work something out so that you can take advantage of riding while you're in Oregon. G.E.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02748009691282638366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-68187536984595315152015-05-29T17:07:19.629+01:002015-05-29T17:07:19.629+01:00"measure from the center of the seat tube to ..."measure from the center of the seat tube to the center of the handlebar stem... and they still label it as "reach" -- yes, that's definitely the definition understood by most of us for quite a long time. It seems a new measurement has emerged but they're recycling the name. Not ideal. I guess the old definition refers to the rider's reach, the new one to the bike frame's reach. What I like is that, armed with that figure and knowing what seat tube and head tube angles you prefer for comfort, suddenly you can rule out a lot of bikes quickly and definitely sight unseen, no wasting time with test rides etc. <br /><br />Your penultimate paragraph - YES!! I've just commented on blog post from today as you know, speaking from a very similar place. <br /><br />The plan... hmm. Well, I could take the Cross Check. I bought a sturdy travel case for it. But United Airlines want to charge me $200 each way. <br /><br />Bike shops in Eugene seem to be assume that anyone wanting to hire a road bike has flown in for a competitive event and need a RACING bike. Road bikes i.e. drop bar bikes for simply riding around (transport, exercise, sightseeing) are just not on their radar, for renting at least. They certainly SELL the right kind of bikes -- I really wish the one offering me the Jamis would just rent me one of the Surly Stragglers on their shop floor instead!! <br /><br />The other option I've been pursuing is to borrow a bike. I don't know any local cyclists "in real life" as I only took up cycling after I moved away. The cycling blogosphere is coming to my rescue and I've got a good lead on a 1980s road bike that would work very well indeed, except that it's got a single chainring and 7-speed cassette. Need to think about that one, as there's quite a climb between where my parents live in Roseburg and where one of my sisters lives several miles out of town. My hope was to be able to ride out to her house early each morning and get a lift back with her in the car when she drives into town. May have to give up that idea and just ride along the river each day to clear my head. Multi-use path though so won't be able to ride hard. Oh well. Rebecca Oldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05979821146538393459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659690394638399722.post-83758370985467448822015-05-29T16:38:44.412+01:002015-05-29T16:38:44.412+01:00It's easy to see how/why people spend decades ...It's easy to see how/why people spend decades become experts in fit. Like you, I've spent entirely too much time learning about as much of it as I can (and still always learning), and I can even add that some builders/manufacturers measure reach differently than the image you've pulled. For example, I find most "stock frame" makers use the method you've indicated, but some I've come across measure from the center of the seat tube to the center of the handlebar stem... and they still label it as "reach," which is entirely confusing. The first time I realized this was trying to compare two different makers and I realized that the numbers were so far off (as in 200+mm) that I knew it had to be a different measurement they were using for a similar sized bike. <br /><br />Anyway, I agree that the stack-to-reach ratio is far more effective in determining the proper size for a rider than the seat tube or top tube length. I have also found that seat tube angle and head tube angle make a big difference in my personal comfort or ability to ride a particular bike.<br /><br />Also, I'm about 1/2 cm (0.2 in) shorter than you, but my PBH is approximately 2 in (5 cm) less. I think your proportions are more "typical female" in my experience, meaning that you have longer legs and a shorter torso (too many drawing/painting the figure classes!!). I think it's also why many females struggle with stock geometry bikes as they are built more to typical male specifications.<br /><br />I am finding more and more that I can ride some stock geometry frames, assuming that I understand the right measurements, which are not necessarily the ones many shops/websites want us to use. It's so frustrating to have things seem so complicated and then realize that perhaps the wrong method has simply been used all along.<br /><br />So, what is your plan for riding in Oregon? Have you picked a better option or is there another location you can rent from that might have a better fit for you? I would think, depending on the city you're visiting, there could be quite a bit of possibility?G.E.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02748009691282638366noreply@blogger.com